Lift options & Tires sizes, Look here first

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Sem Loção 4WD
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In fact

I don't really know. It was the first time this thump showed up. I was with the car half-loaded... strange... Wouldn't you expect that this end-travel possibility was more likely to happen with the car empty (so the springs are more extended, and the shock is working more "open")?

I have measured the springs... rear, 12mm thickness, both from the lift and the stock wich I kept... front springs are thicker, 14mm...

Let's see the behaviour on the next days.... I have the lift for over 1.000 km now, have done a heavier trail 2 weeks ago and didn't thumped, and I was with the car "empty"... 

Thanks!

Daniel

Daniel -> Pajero TR4 AT (from Brazil)

lift +3" / Marshal MT / Kaiser locker

NZIO
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Springs

I don't have any new ideas for the thump, but for info my Mazda front springs that are on the rear of the io are 12.9 mm vs 11.8 for the standard rears, so it seems the ford springs are longer but perhaps will bottom out at less weight than Mazda ones.

Sem Loção 4WD
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That's

..what I'm thinkinf of.... Tomorrow I'll heve more spare time, will see if I can find some tering in the coil turns, a sign that it could be smashing more than the normal and expected... Cheers!

Daniel -> Pajero TR4 AT (from Brazil)

lift +3" / Marshal MT / Kaiser locker

NZIO
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Back on wheels

A pic of the two right side 25mm steel spacers:

The 25mm strut spacer (I should have taken a pic before fitting.. sorry, I didn't but they're exactly per the diagram in this thread):

 

 After the diff drop and strut spacers (and with my previously fitted strut extenders and KYB334405 struts), the extended front end looks like this:

 

 

And the final result looks like this. I think I need another inch lift at the back now... wink

So after all the lift mods this is where I'm at:

FRONT:
840mm from wheel arch to ground, via vertical line through the hub.
This is a 70mm total body lift vs standard (25mm from fitting KYB struts, 25mm from strut spacers, 20mm from 225/75 16 tyres
And 25mm diff drop
And 50mm strut extenders

REAR:
845mm  from wheel arch to ground, via vertical line through the hub.
This is a 60mm total body lift vs standard (40mm from fitting BA Mazda springs, 20mm from fitting 225/75 16 tyres)

I would like another 10-20mm at the rear which will preferably come from finding a longer spring than the BA Mazda ones, or else I might end up getting some made. Spacers are also an option obviously.

Finally some numbers for Claude on front suspension droop, taken after the above mods:

Measuring from the wheel arch in a vertical line to the centre of the hub...

- sitting on the ground, empty car = 520mm
- with the wheel jacked up and fully extended = 590mm

So that's 70mm of 'droop' from level rest to fully extended. I'm not sure but I think that's a little more than standard.

Fab72
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NZio ...Love that car. That's

NZio ...Love that car.

That's awesome lift and the droop is extra impressive.  Another inch at the rear would be the icing on the cake.

Fab.

 

          "Love that car"

Sem Loção 4WD
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NIce!

Fab72 wrote:

NZio ...Love that car.

That's awesome lift and the droop is extra impressive.  Another inch at the rear would be the icing on the cake.

Fab.

 

X2!!!

x2!!!

Just loved too!.... I have the same problem..... 3" spacer in fornt and bigger springs + 2" spacer in the rear..... but the rear is about 3/4" lower still... :(

 

Daniel -> Pajero TR4 AT (from Brazil)

lift +3" / Marshal MT / Kaiser locker

Claude io
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Thanks,

Looks good. I think that your 70mm lift is great but I don't think that the distribution is as you mentioned. My understanding and what I have read on the forum is that 25 mm spacer at the top of the strut doesn't give you 25 mm lift (but I don't know how much!)

But it doesn't matter and it is good that you have keep most of the wheel droop. yes

Happy io,

NZIO
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Spacer lift

You mean its more than 25 because the bottom of the strut is inboard of the wheel? The lift doesn't quite reconcile with what I measured for the struts and tyres previously and maybe that part of it, or down to things settling, tyre pressures, etc. Close enough eh :)

singlecell
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Nzio, did you make the strut top extenders yourself or have them made? I am interested in something like that myself but I have no idea where to start in having them made or buying the materials.

I am also concerned about raising my rear any more as I have found that the panhard road stops the rear right side of the car droping any further then then length of the stock springs. So raising is any more would really only lose any drop we have.

Sem Loção 4WD
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This is indeed

a concern....

Just took pics of my TR4 suspended on the lifter at the shop..... the panhard rod not only limits the amount of the down travel but also deviates the alignment axis... 

 

 

When the car lies on the floor, it becomes more subtle, but still perceptible... my next step will be extend the panhard, by putting a bolt on it..

Cheers!

Daniel -> Pajero TR4 AT (from Brazil)

lift +3" / Marshal MT / Kaiser locker

NZIO
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Good point and Good pic

Good point Singlecell and this illustrates it well, I haven't measured the offset on mine - from what I've read there's not much to worry about until you're over 2" of lift, which I'm not (yet) but Daniel obviously is. Having said that, that's what the Suzuki guys say and maybe their panhard is longer.

I'm keen to see how you get on with the bolt Daniel. Make it strong - these things have huge forces put through them.

Singlecell, Regarding the strut top - I'll email you the letter sent to engineering companies for quotes.

Sem Loção 4WD
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definetely

this is a concern....

I don't know yet if I use the bolt solution or search for a longer panhard...

this is a friend of mine'ss solution.... still afraid of doing something like that..

Daniel -> Pajero TR4 AT (from Brazil)

lift +3" / Marshal MT / Kaiser locker

NZIO
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Hmmm

Not sure I'd want that solution, but is that a rose jointed shock absorber mount? What shocks is he using, do you know? You guys over there have done so much more in modding these cars... We have a bit to learn I think.

fordem
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uhhh - Daniel ...

Lengthening the panhard rod won't fix the problem - it will just change the point at which it occurs.

Ideally with the vehicle at the desired ride height, the panhard rod should be horizontal (or parallel to the ground on which the car is parked) - lengthening the rod will allow you to recenter the axle, but it will only be centered at one point in it's travel.  As long as the panhard rod is at an angle the axle will move sideways - in this case, it will move to the right as the axle moves up and to the left as it moves down.

What you need to do is move the mount point of the rod - either move the body mount down, or move the axle mount up - so that the rod is horizontal.  This will not prevent the sideways movement, but it will reduce it.

 

Edit

After taking a look underneath, it should be a relatively simple task to fabricate a "bolt on" extension to move the axle mount up - it might even be easier than cutting & extending the panhard rod.

Sem Loção 4WD
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Yes

fordem wrote:

Lengthening the panhard rod won't fix the problem - it will just change the point at which it occurs.

Ideally with the vehicle at the desired ride height, the panhard rod should be horizontal (or parallel to the ground on which the car is parked) - lengthening the rod will allow you to recenter the axle, but it will only be centered at one point in it's travel.  As long as the panhard rod is at an angle the axle will move sideways - in this case, it will move to the right as the axle moves up and to the left as it moves down.

What you need to do is move the mount point of the rod - either move the body mount down, or move the axle mount up - so that the rod is horizontal.  This will not prevent the sideways movement, but it will reduce it.

That's exactly what I thought...

asking myself WHY the heck Mits have these obliquous panhards? as I remember, even without the lift, tha panhard wasn't horizontal... or Am i missing the point?

 

bTW my freind shocks are from OFFLIMITS,a brazilian racing/4wd manufacturer

http://www.offlimits.com.br/

Cheers!

Daniel -> Pajero TR4 AT (from Brazil)

lift +3" / Marshal MT / Kaiser locker

fordem
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It's close to horizontal on my car

My iO is at standard ride height, and the panhard is either horizontal or very close to it - I didn't put a level on it, but it's close.

Sem Loção 4WD
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lift

...is the cause mine is oblique, indeed... tell me more, sorry, I didn't quite undertsand what you meant with "bolt on" extension... :(

After taking a look underneath, it should be a relatively simple task to fabricate a "bolt on" extension to move the axle mount up - it might even be easier than cutting & extending the panhard rod.

 

Thanks!

Daniel -> Pajero TR4 AT (from Brazil)

lift +3" / Marshal MT / Kaiser locker

fordem
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We have a language problem here.

I think this is what they call the language barrier - your english is way better than my portugese - but let's see what we can come up with.

Look at how the panhard rod is attached to the rear axle - and imagine a piece of heavy sheet metal cut, folded and bolted to the axle, with the panhard rod bolted to the top of this piece of metal, so that it is horizontal again.

Does that help you understand it?

 

Sem Loção 4WD
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Got it!

I guess I got the idea.... a bolt joining the new "piece" (kind of a U-section rod) at the original panhard rod bolt, and the panhard conected to the upper "eye" of the piece. My question is,  how will I keep this piece in place, avoiding its swing, since it is bolted, that is, at every turn with my car, will this piece swing and my axle is going to slide sideways?

Thanks!

 

Daniel -> Pajero TR4 AT (from Brazil)

lift +3" / Marshal MT / Kaiser locker

NZIO
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Panhard

Whether you move the top chassis mount down or the axle mount up, that extension must be rigid, not swinging.

A different solution is a watts linkage - google will explain that better than I can.

singlecell
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.

** This post should be two posts down, I dont know why its appeared up here**

 

NZIO wrote:
Good point Singlecell and this illustrates it well, I haven't measured the offset on mine - from what I've read there's not much to worry about until you're over 2" of lift, which I'm not (yet) but Daniel obviously is. Having said that, that's what the Suzuki guys say and maybe their panhard is longer. I'm keen to see how you get on with the bolt Daniel. Make it strong - these things have huge forces put through them. Singlecell, Regarding the strut top - I'll email you the letter sent to engineering companies for quotes.

Thanks for the email Don, Ill have some made up once a good option for the rear is thought up.

Wouldnt extending the panhard only realign your rear back to centre, but not really give any more travel?  I am only knew to how it all works, but thats just how I worked it out.

My left tyre sticks out more then the right hand side one does but I am pretty sure I remember noticing this when I had the A/T tyres put on, which was before the left.  I have not really looked into it any more then that.

fordem
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No, no, no - bolted yes,

No, no, no - bolted yes, swinging, no - this extension needs to be rigidly attached to the axle.

I think retrofitting a watt's linkage to an off road vehicle will be more work than it's worth.

NZIO
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probably...

fordem wrote:

I think retrofitting a watt's linkage to an off road vehicle will be more work than it's worth.

Probably. But I wouldn't have half as much fun as I do messing about with cars if I cut out all the projects that weren't worth the effort ;) 

And it would have the advantage of working with any amount of lift within its range without further modification or adjustment - for myself, I could go up further or might end up dropping it down again one day.

Sem Loção 4WD
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More thoughts

fordem wrote:

No, no, no - bolted yes, swinging, no - this extension needs to be rigidly attached to the axle.

I think retrofitting a watt's linkage to an off road vehicle will be more work than it's worth.

I thought the same... a swinging point would be the same as no rod.... I guess I'm going with some kind of adjustable panhard rod...

a Watt's linkage is awesome, but (by now) it's not on my planning.... ;) 

as far as I understood, a bolt piece or an extended rod would result the same, that is, as the suspension is compresses or opened, it will always result in a sideway moovement, cause the basic principle of the panhard is an angle swing, with the radius been its length.... Longer the rod, smaller the variations (since its "zero" point is on horizontal axis..)

Cheers, and thanks to all!

Daniel -> Pajero TR4 AT (from Brazil)

lift +3" / Marshal MT / Kaiser locker

ktm300
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Hi Guy's.

The rear of mine is also offset to the left at rest.

However when the left side is fully compressed, the diff pulls to the right just touching the chassis/body.

An adjustable or lengthened panhard would only exaggerate this.

I haven't looked further into a solution as of yet, though I imagine the geometry as a whole needs to be considered,

to achieve a greater ie: flatter arc so to speak.

Maybe it's just the mounts as Fordem say's?

Anyone else noticed this? Any thought's?

Cheers.

 

 

 

"It should be assumed everything I say and do is incorrect ".

fordem
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Extending the mount minimizes the lateral travel of the axle.

The panhard rod is a compromise - without it the axle would have significant horizontal sideways movement, with it the horizontal movement is limited, but the design forces the axle to move sideways within an arc as it moves up & down.  A watts linkage system would be better but requires five pivots, where the panhard rod requires two, plus of course the necessary clerance for the linkage to move.

If the panhard rod is horizontal, as it is in most vehicles when they leave the factory, the axle will be at it's maximum offset in one direction with the vehicle at rest - in the case of a Pajero iO, to the right - and as the suspension travels up & down from the rest position, the axle will move to the left - raise the suspension without moving the panhard mount to compensate and the axle becomes offset to the left when at rest, and will move to the right when the suspension travels up, and to the left as the suspension travels down - you're going to have amost twice the amount of lateral movement, for the same vertical movement, as you did when the panhard rod was horizontal - the increased vertical movement that probably results from your lifted suspension only serves to magnify the lateral movement of the axle.

Extending the panhard rod allows you to correct the offset of the axle with the vehicle at rest, but it does nothing about the increased lateral movement - moving the panhard mount - either mount or even both mounts, the important thing is that the panhard rod be horizontal with the vehicle at rest - will correct the offset and return the lateral movement to what it was "ex-factory" - there will still be increased lateral movement due to the increased suspension travel, but it will again be in a leftward direction only as the suspension moves away from rest, either up or down. 

Sem Loção 4WD
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Parfect

... as usual, Fordem.....

Great explanation... the best we can do is take back the panhard to its horizontal place.... Have ssen some adaptations of panhard mount, which gives the option to displace the mount internally, in direction of the center of the axle... It maybe would fix the "misalifnment" problem, but it would give MORE ANGLE to the panhard, resulting in MORE sideway swing when the suspension is extended or compressed!... definetely, not an option to me...

I'm going to figure out some mount extenders to take the panhard back to horizontal...

Thanks again, Fordem!

 

Cheers!

Daniel -> Pajero TR4 AT (from Brazil)

lift +3" / Marshal MT / Kaiser locker

Sem Loção 4WD
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Rear shocks

Hi all...

Just posted a table that may be of interest on this thread (posted on "Rear shocks" thread...

A camparative of Monroe/Rancho shocks between TR4, L200 (for lifted TR4/iO)

Daniel -> Pajero TR4 AT (from Brazil)

lift +3" / Marshal MT / Kaiser locker

Sem Loção 4WD
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Panhard

Regarding to the Panhard issue, I just went to the shop to change oil/filters and took some pics of my rear suspension, full open...

Note the angle of panhard (of course, ion the floor it becomes less oblique)and the axis of the coil springs...

And coil springs chains are definetely smashing..

Daniel -> Pajero TR4 AT (from Brazil)

lift +3" / Marshal MT / Kaiser locker

NZIO
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rear lift stuff

Daniel, I've been busy with work and haven't had time to think about this stuff, but the table of shock absorber lengths is very interesting to me as I am going to extend my rear shocks somehow. Thanks for taking the time to post this up.yes

jk500 (not verified)
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Hey i know i have already

Hey i know i have already asked this but just making sure that the 334405KYB truts have the higher pan? i got a price from sprint $340 is that about right? also is there somewhere i can just buy the dobinson rear coils? thanks :) cant wait 4 the lift.

NZIO
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334405

334405's definitely have the higher pan, the only thing you need to be sure of is that what you have fitted now is the lower pan or you won't get any lift from them (details to measure are in the 'strut data' thread). $340 sounds about right to me. Don't know where you'd go for dobinsons coils there (I'm in NZ).

jk500 (not verified)
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Thanks yeah im sure mine are

Thanks yeah im sure mine are the lower struts, well i shall order them tomorrow.  just need something for the back because my origional coils ar shot the driver side sits way lower and it doesnt help that i have a drawer system in the back. 

Sem Loção 4WD
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UPDATES

Hey guys...

Updates on my lift...

I had to replace my front spacers, not cause they had some malfunction, but due to the fact that it was way too high, and I don't want to star messing with other strucuture components... so I replaced them with 2.5" spacers (well, 1/2" can't be that bad..?)...

On the rear, I replaced the coil springst that were smashing the chains... I found a well suited spring after numerous tests, the FIAT Tempra rear springs..

BUT, the upper chain is a little smaller than the rest, and we had to put a rubber mount from GM Opala to fit exactly the inner coil bumper..

well... lets see what comes next.... nucking futs, me?... well.. ordinary cars are for ordinary people... ;)

 

Cheers!

 

Daniel -> Pajero TR4 AT (from Brazil)

lift +3" / Marshal MT / Kaiser locker

NZIO
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Fiat Tempra?

Never had the Tempra here, nor the Opala, but its good to know that there is a growing range of other marques that have springs that fit. I haven't found time on the weekend yet to do a tour of wreckers to see if i can find a longer spring than the BA Astina one on the shelf...

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  Quote:       Greetings

 

Quote:

 

 

 

Greetings from Barbados, I'm just amazed at this jeep and wondering whose is it and what I have to do to get mine like this.  Where I am, these aren't modded at all but I plan to turn that around.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.  Forgot to mention I have the 1999 Pajero iO, 1800cc (will I need to upgrade the engine as well?)

Claude io
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hello

Hello and welcome,

I won't tell anyone you called the Io a "jeep" ...lol. I could be wrong but this car could be one of Pininokios, he is from Greece and a quick google search will show you a few Utubes video...very muddy.... If you want to play with "google translate" or other you should find him on this site :"www.pajeroclub.gr "

Happy io

themis
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Front end rear locker 6"lift tyre 7,5-16 long arm 

fordem
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I was going to edit Themis' post

I had originally planned to edit Themis' post so that you could see the images without having to click on them - but - I changed my mind.

Click on a link and go to the photobucket account and look at ALL the images, this guy has done some really amazing work on his iO

Admin
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pics showing in posts

fordem wrote:

I had originally planned to edit Themis' post so that you could see the images without having to click on them - but - I changed my mind.

Click on a link and go to the photobucket account and look at ALL the images, this guy has done some really amazing work on his iO

i have done that to a couple of posts. I agree its worth looking through all his pics! But still might mod the posts :)

Claude io
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pics

FULLY AGREE. Link tend to disappear...

Happy io

Admin
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Having them hosted here is my

Having them hosted here is my preference for that reason, unfortunately there just hot linked at the moment.

Themis has a lot of cool pics tho, I dont see him going anywhere anytime soon, I think there safe :)

boyet_io
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Greetings from Philippines

Greetings from Philippines, I am new here and I wonder what size of tires are you using Sir? i have the 1999 Pajero iO 3dr 1.8 GDI 5spd manual..i use BFG All-terrain KO LT215/70/R16 100/97R..i bought it here in the philippines from a Japanese importer converted to lefthand drive.. 

 

Quote:

 

 

 

 

if there's a wheel there's a way...Phillipines

themis
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These are 235-70-16  my own

These are 235-70-16  my own car heve 235-85-16

Front end rear locker 6"lift tyre 7,5-16 long arm 

mdio
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Too much of a lift??

Hi. Just bought my sons 2002 2L IO. Never been off road i thought i would make it a bit of a project. Just installed KYB shocks / struts ( 343408 and 334405) and king springs (KMFS-900 and KFFS-90). Front lifted 60mm and rear 50mm with these replacements. Based on comments in previous blogs this seems too much without some adjustment to lower diffs etc. First test drive revaled some "clunking" sound every time I turned the streering wheel. Does anyone have any thoughts on what this noise might be an how to fix it. Thinking I might get the smaller King springs to reduce the lift to 30mm or so.

bob_oz
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too high

Front is too high,

Try some Softer front Springs.

If your new kyb struts have higher perches try the old stock springs are a good start

.

Claude io
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lift

Hello and welcome to the forum...hope to see your project with us....

The diff is not the bigger problem at this stage.

For the front, KMFS-900 doesn't fit with the strut 334405, this is dangerous.... Some reading about it  http://pajerio.com/forum/kingspring-and-kyb-mix

If you can get a refund or get them swapped for the correct one (the front spring that is). Once you fit the correct spring, your front lift should be around 30mm or so.

The noise you have could be because you didn't fit properly the top plate on the spring. This plate is suppose to line up with the lower plate (the plates holding the spring ). Both plate have a hole, the hole should line up. It could be something else as well....check first...

Happy io

mdio
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Hi and thanks for your

Hi and thanks for your comments. Yes you a quite correct. The clunking noise is from the spring. Have ordered the lower sping  KMFS-900 (SP) so hopefully the noise will correct when they go on. With the new sping the front lift should be 30mm, however the rear spring (KFFS-90) has lifted the rear 50MM. Do you think this difefernce between front and back will be a problem?  Another interesting point is that the ground clearance as per the handbook is 205mm, and is now 245mm with the lift, suggesting only a 40mm lift.  Perhaps the old springs had got a litte tired and had dropped 10-15mm, and in reality the current config is really only  40mm hiher that the build specs. Any comment you have would be appreciated. By the way am based in Perth. Cheers.

Claude io
Claude io's picture
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lift

Quote:  Do you think this difefernce between front and back will be a problem? ...

No, that should be fine. This new set have been done "properly" and it has been used on a few car without a problem.

You are probably correct regarding the old spring loosing a bit of height. This said the chassis is not the best to measure as the tyres will have a direct impact on the result. (wear, pressure, brand...)

Changing vehicle height can have a negative effect on the drive, more at higher speed, handling and braking distances. But having firmer spring (like the kingspring you have) will compensate this. Fitting new shock will improve this as well. The final work will have you ride a bit firmer...but safer as well.

Happy io

mdio
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  • Joined: 24/02/2014
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Just insalled the shorter

Just insalled the shorter King springs and lift is now about 30mm and clunking noise gone. Moving on to add larger tyres but stuck a bit of a hurdle. It seems that under the vehicle standards code (14) the maximum overall diameter increase for a soft roader is 15mm (50mm for a 4WD) This assumes that the IO is a soft roader of course.  Does anyone have any thoughts about this

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